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Entry tags:
dev chat meeting: 2014-06-21 12:00 EDT
In a few minutes we'll be starting a meeting in #dreamwidth-dev! Please drop by if you're around and chat with us!
If you can't make today's meeting, the next meeting will be on Friday, June 27, at 10 pm EDT.
Update: Here's a list of topics we discussed today:
And a partial list of topics to follow up with next time:
In attendance were myself, _Simon_, V_PauAmma_V, kaberett, foxfirefey, Afuna, exor674, alierak, zorkian, and Sophira.
If you can't make today's meeting, the next meeting will be on Friday, June 27, at 10 pm EDT.
Update: Here's a list of topics we discussed today:
- Github issues
- Foundation/Compass
- old pull requests
- updating Ubuntu version on dreamhack server
- developer open question threads
And a partial list of topics to follow up with next time:
- what we learned at OSB
- access to old bugs from Bugzilla
- possibly alternating chat meetings with group development time
In attendance were myself, _Simon_, V_PauAmma_V, kaberett, foxfirefey, Afuna, exor674, alierak, zorkian, and Sophira.
11:07 -!- ChanServ changed the topic of #dreamwidth-dev to: Dreamwidth Studios
(dreamwidth.org) -- development discussion. Grab a bug and start hacking!
|| Dev chat currently in progress, transcript will be posted.
11:08 < kaberett> Hello world :-)
11:08 < Kareila> okay, I guess we're ready to get started. Raise your hand or
say hello if you're awake and participating, so I can include an attendance list?
11:08 * _Simon_ raises an arm
11:09 * V_PauAmma_V is awake.
11:10 < Kareila> I know Afuna and foxfirefey were awake a few minutes ago
11:10 * Afuna raises an arm
11:10 < foxfirefey> Hiiii
11:12 * exor674 is fake-here, so probably shouldn't be counted
11:13 < alierak> Heeeey.
11:13 < Kareila> Okay, thanks for coming. I don't really have an agenda today,
but I was hoping to talk about what's been going on recently, and give
everyone a chance to talk about what they are working on or interested
in working on.
11:13 < kaberett> Cool! I have a Definite Question I'd like to ask/get walked through
11:14 < kaberett> Okay to go ahead and ask, or would you like to direct a bit more than that? :-)
11:14 < Kareila> Great! I'll let you start with that then. You have the floor, kaberett.
11:15 < kaberett> Basically, I Cope Badly with change (took me 8 months to
migrate to git!). I'm currently A Bit Scared of how github issues is
working in terms of issue-tracking, bug reports, etc -- I know I'll
likely to be talking to rah about this a lot over the next week, but
I would super-appreciate someone making small words at me about how to
look for/claim/etc issues (and I can probably then update the relevant
bit of the wiki, if it doesn't already reflect r
11:15 < zorkian> (I'm getting some coffee but will be here in about 10)
11:15 < Kareila> Yeah, that was a concern of mine as well.
11:15 < kaberett> (And indeed how to report issues. And relatedly, there was a
question in here the other day about how to handle things where you've
patched a bug that doesn't have an existing issue - should you open a
new issue first as a thing in its own right, then refer to it, or have
the pull-request-issue double up as report & fix?)
11:16 < Kareila> My understanding, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong,
Fu, you've been spending a lot of time on this...
11:16 < kaberett> (I don't know what policy on that last question is, or even
if we have one, and I think it would be Helpful for me to know...)
11:17 < Kareila> My understanding is that the process for triaging issues is
still in flux, and requires some work on our end to get things nicely sorted.
11:18 < Kareila> For now, I think if you see an Issue in Github, and want to
work on it, leave a comment saying "I want to work on this" and that will
be considered the same as assigning the bug to yourself under Bugzilla.
11:19 < Kareila> And I believe it was decided that you can open a PR without a
related issue, but if there IS a related issue, it should be referenced
in the PR.
11:19 < kaberett> Okay - thank you!
11:20 < Afuna> I haven't spend a lot of time formalizing anything kareila fwiw :)
11:20 < Kareila> Afuna: do you have anything to add? Or am I mostly correct?
11:20 < Afuna> mostly been trying to see how things shake out in informal use
insted of forcing someonesomething on everyone, but wih a couple weeks of
using just github for issues I think now is a good time to be asking the
questions above
11:20 < Afuna> and no I don't other than to say I agree with that
11:20 < Afuna> oh one addition:
11:21 < Afuna> it doesn't seem possible to assign a bug to yourself on github
unless you're a committer on the repo so we're trying to figure out what
to do about that
11:21 < Afuna> just for additional context re: why leaving a comment is the
thing to do right now
11:22 < Kareila> What I'm going to really miss (once I start trying to use the
new system myself) is the ability to quickly find unassigned bugs/issues.
Do we have a workaround for that right now?
11:23 < kaberett> Kareila: I don't think so; I believe rah and I are going to
be discussing some of the ways this might be implemented at OSBridge (or
at least, we're definitely going to be talking about tagging, potentially
with a view to having me take on some of it.)
11:23 < Kareila> I'd be happy to help with that as well, so maybe I can sit in
on that conversation. :)
11:24 < Afuna> hee I'd love to hear the resultso f that conversation as well :0
11:25 < Afuna> though I won't be at osbridge!
11:25 < Kareila> I'm excited for OSB but sad Fu and Mark won't be there :/
11:25 < exor674> or me ;_;
11:25 < kaberett> Afuna: I imagine I'll be writing up whatever gets decided in
quite a lot of detail!
11:26 < Kareila> I freaked out a bit when I realized I would be the senior Perl
hacker of our group this year, heh.
11:26 < Afuna> aww yeah
11:26 < Afuna> kaberett: awesome, I look forward to that and thank you <3
11:26 < kaberett> yw!
11:26 < V_PauAmma_V> (to kaberett) Have yoou seen http://dw-dev.dreamwidth.org/153428.html?style=mine#cutid2 ?
11:26 < Afuna> kareila: hah. You'll be awesome in that role as you are in al your other roles :)
11:27 < Kareila> thanks for the vote of confidence :)
11:27 < alierak> So we could possibly expect an "assigned" tag on issues once
they've been claimed?
11:27 < zorkian> (I'm back)
11:28 < kaberett> V_PauAmma_V: yes; I was to some extent wondering if there had
been updates, but grand, thank you
11:28 < Afuna> (wb)
11:28 < kaberett> (I know I haven't been around the project as much as I'd like
while settling into PhD!)
11:28 < alierak> (oh, github already does that, showing a little user pic in the
issue list if assigned)
11:28 < Afuna> I kinda want to change the milestone handling a bit; we keep
forgetting to change the milestone from unclaimed, etc
11:29 < Afuna> alierak: yeah, but the problem is you can't assign a bug to
yourself unless you have commit privs or admin or sometihng
11:29 < zorkian> kaberett: I have nothing to add to the question, except, I know
that GitHub is v. different from Bugzilla, so I really appreciate you
asking questions, poking at things, and offering to help doc. Thank you!
11:30 < Kareila> hmm. with as many people as we have who do have those privs
and get email for every comment, could we reasonably expect that to be
handled manually, at least as a stopgap?
11:30 < _Simon_> Ditto, and also to add that assuming we can make Github do what
we need, it addresses a concernt hat I had before - that the record of
conversations on bugs were being lost as they were split between
'zilla and github
11:31 < kaberett> [I don't have those privs; I would be willing to handle manual
updates and use powers for no other purpose if that would be useful.]
11:31 < kaberett> [On an ongoing rather than stopgap basis.]
11:31 < alierak> Rah used to do that on Bugzilla back when she had wrists and no sleep.
11:32 < zorkian> I'd personally be OK with giving a set of people commit access
for the purpose of maintaining issues
11:33 < Kareila> Looks like the current administrators of the repository are me,
Fu, Mark, Dre, and Rak.
11:33 < Afuna> I have no problem with this!
11:33 * exor674 isn't admin of repo
11:33 < Afuna> uhhh giving more people access I mean ;)
11:33 < exor674> I've only got commit access to the iDreamwidth one
11:33 < Kareila> maybe I'm looking at the wrong page? I did think you had commit access though.
11:33 < exor674> nope!
11:34 < _Simon_> This can't be a novel problem
11:34 < _Simon_> Other OSS projects that use the Issues system must have encountered it?
11:34 < kaberett> zorkian, alierak: well, rah has me tagging shit up in
dw_suggestions because I Actively Enjoy Organising Things, so... ;)
11:34 < geekosaur> _Simon_, (btw I'm just auditing this) from what I have seen
a lot of open souce projects use github for code and something else for issues
11:34 < Afuna> _Simon_: most of the bigger ones end up hosting their own issue trackers ;)
11:35 < _Simon_> I see.
11:35 < geekosaur> lot of stuff using launchpad, code.google.com (issues only), etc
11:35 < Afuna> it works out okay for smaller organizations, or one-dev projects
wehre there's no need to distinguish but it gets awkward at our current
need of organization
11:35 < _Simon_> Maybe we have to keep in mind the possibility that github
really isn't adequate. Not that we shouldn't try, because the integration
would be neat, but if it ends up in horrid kludges, not be totally wedded
to the idewa
11:36 < kaberett> _Simon_: mmm.
11:36 < alierak> Well, I think it has an API, so horrid kludges are at least feasible.
11:36 < _Simon_> Bearing in mind all the time that what is fine when we have
tens of bugs in the system may become unusable with hundreds or more
11:36 < kaberett> _Simon_: I know that we were intending to have this be a
testing period for GHI; do we actually have a let's-reevaluate-this
date/stage in mind?
11:37 < zorkian> Denise and I have talked about it, there's no firm date tho
11:37 < Afuna> the last time I chatted about it with denise, there were no other
good options that work for our workflow / for organizing with tagging etc
the way that works for us
11:37 < foxfirefey> I think Atlassian does open source hosting for Jira:
https://www.atlassian.com/software/views/open-source-license-request
11:37 < Afuna> I don't know if anything new has turned up since
11:37 < zorkian> Personally I am pretty happy with GHI and think that some
issues can be solved with things like the hook Fu built, and we haven't
proceeded very far down that path yet, so there's still some good
improvement to be made
11:38 < Afuna> zorkian: I think the hook I built could be totally irrelevant
with a dedicated tagging team!
11:38 < exor674> I'm not sure how I like relying on humans
11:39 < zorkian> yeah
11:39 < Kareila> Okay. Unless anyone else has an urgent concern about the Github
situation, I suggest we table this for now and revisit it after OSB. Who
knows, maybe we'll become aware of another alternative while we're there.
11:39 < Afuna> yeah. I'd be happy to hear of anything that comes up during osbridge
11:39 < Afuna> sees like the right place for something to turn p if something will :)
11:41 < Sophira> Ooo, a dev chat.
11:42 < Sophira> Sorry I'm late. I didn't see that this would be going on.
11:42 * Sophira reads the log so far.
11:42 < Kareila> no worries, Sophira. thanks for stopping by.
11:44 < _Simon_> from a quick look at GHI (which I've never used)... is there
actually any way to search?
11:44 < zorkian> Very top of the page has a search box.
11:44 < _Simon_> but that isn't just searching issues?
11:45 < _Simon_> or is it close enough that it works OK...
11:45 < Afuna> if you're on the issues page it searches just issues
11:45 < Afuna> (github is sometimes a bit too clever :p)
11:45 < _Simon_> I'm not seeing any finer searching apart from the google-style
text search and the stuff that it provides such as "assigned to me". Not
sure how much the lack of the fine-grained search of 'zilla would be a problem...
11:45 < Kareila> yeah, it's a bit confusing because the search autocomplete
includes hits on code files.
11:45 < _Simon_> ....and since I'm not actually doing dw dev at present, I shall
stop fretting and let those who are actually using it talk at OSB :-)
11:47 < Kareila> Okay. Switching gears, can we talk about Compass/Foundation a bit?
11:48 < kaberett> Sure.
11:48 < _Simon_> Can you start by explaining what those things are, please? :-)
11:48 < Kareila> I have one very specific question and one more general question.
11:48 < Sophira> Okay, I'm up to speed. I'll say that I've also had issues with
Issues, personally. But I do know that work is being done on an automated
backend which I believe will make some of these things easier? For example,
being able to comment in an issue with a specific format and then a bot
will assign you the issue. Is that right?
11:48 < Sophira> Oh, sorry, guess I'm too late for that discussion now.
11:48 < Kareila> (I think so, Sophira.)
11:48 < kaberett> Foundation is basis of the current site redesign, _Simon_.
11:48 < foxfirefey> Foundation refers to the framework: foundation.zurb.com
11:49 < kaberett> So it's what's been used to overhaul the current Manage
Communities page, and is designed to be responsive to screen size
(dealing with some of the WHY DOESN'T DW HAVE AN APP issues!)
11:49 < _Simon_> curent site redesign? Hmm. I may be out of touch. Which is
perhaps something I'd like to discuss, but without derailing this topic.
Tabled for later :-)
11:49 < kaberett> see http://www.dreamwidth.org/communities/list !
11:51 < Kareila> In fairness to _Simon_, I've been keeping an eye on the entries
to dw-dev (under the "scss" tag), but so much of it is wall-o-text that I
don't feel like I'm up to speed either.
11:51 < V_PauAmma_V> Is http://www.dreamwidth.org/dev/classes current? Or is it
hopelessly outdated by now?
11:52 < Afuna> huh I thought I'd gotten rid of that. http://www.dreamwidth.org/dev/style-guide
is the current
11:54 < kaberett> (I'm going to take off on the hour, as a heads-up)
11:54 < Afuna> Kareila: happy to answer questions btw!
11:54 < Kareila> Okay, so first my specific question. I haven't updated my
dreamhack in a long time, and I know there should be a new step related
to updating the CSS files, but it's not documented on the Dev Maintenance
page on the wiki,
11:54 < Kareila> and I'm happy to deal with that if someone will tell me what
needs to be done :)
11:54 < _Simon_> Yeah, I have to go soon as well. May put the things I wanted to
ask about on dw-dev.
11:55 < Kareila> _Simon_: feel free to leave further questions as a comment on
the entry for this meeting, or as a top level post, whichever you feel is
more appropriate.
11:56 < Afuna> Kareila: Hmmmm
11:57 < Afuna> http://wiki.dreamwidth.net/wiki/index.php/SCSS
11:57 < Afuna> should already be installed on 'hacks
11:57 < foxfirefey> So that should be simple enough to add a compile step on
Dev Maintenance
11:57 < Afuna> so it's just either: compass compile (if you've just done the one
change and want to double check it)
11:58 < Afuna> or compass watch (if you're oing to be editing a bunch of things
and you just want your scss to compile in the bacgkground any time you
make a change
11:58 < Sophira> Afuna: A quick heads-up, btw - http://www.dreamwidth.org/dev/style-guide
seems to include some references to user.dream.fu which make the userhead
icon not show up.
11:58 < Afuna> yes! I hadn't realized that that wasn't clear and I'm glad you pointed that out
11:58 < Afuna> haha nice
11:58 < Kareila> but I have to do it once in LJHOME and once in LJHOME/ext/dw-nonfree?
11:59 < Afuna> yes!
11:59 < Kareila> okay. and if I do compass watch, how do I turn it off when I'm done?
11:59 < foxfirefey> Just ctrl-C
12:00 < Afuna> yeah
12:00 < Afuna> when you run it, it says: ">>> Compass is watching for changes.
Press Ctrl-C to Stop." in case you're ever worried about forgetting
12:00 < Afuna> (general you)
12:00 < Kareila> okay, I have a feeling I'm going to want to script that, but
it's a start.
12:01 < foxfirefey> Okay, it is now a stage in Dev Maintenance
12:01 < foxfirefey> http://wiki.dreamwidth.net/wiki/index.php/Dev_Maintenance#Compile_the_SCSS
12:01 < Afuna> most of the time only the css in dw-free need to edited
12:01 < Kareila> thank you fey!
12:01 < Afuna> so you could hypothetically get away with just having compass watch in dw-free
12:02 * Afuna hands
12:02 < Kareila> we should probably add it to the dwdb script too.
12:02 < Afuna> hmm. amyeb that should go in the background, because after
running the first compass compile
12:03 < Afuna> you can't run the second (since it will wait for ctrl-c to stop
it ebfore accepting further input)
12:04 < Afuna> umph. I'm so sorry! that running compass compile not compass watch
12:04 < Kareila> ... right, compile exits normally I would imagine
12:04 < Afuna> I misread -- sorry for the confusion :)
12:04 < Afuna> yep
12:04 < Kareila> Okay! More general question.
12:05 < Kareila> Those of us who are adding new pages to the site - should we
worry about using Compass now, or is it still sufficiently in flux that we
can be forgiven for continuing to use the older CSS?
12:05 < Kareila> Because I have a bunch of half-done stuff in the pipeline. :/
12:07 < zorkian> Afuna: you fielding that?
12:08 < Kareila> I ran into this once before, when I added a bunch of BML to the
site after we'd officially switched to TT. although they were admin pages,
not user facing.
12:08 < Afuna> yeah hmmm
12:09 < foxfirefey> We have a bunch of the site to convert so in my opinion you
shouldn't have to worry about it too much
12:09 < foxfirefey> As long as you're not using table based lay-outs, conversion
isn't too difficult
12:10 < exor674> While we're on the subject of stuff in the pipeline, what's
going on with https://github.com/dreamwidth/dw-free/pull/506
12:10 < Afuna> yeah. and the specific feature you're referring to, it's parto f
the shop, right?
12:10 < Afuna> and we'll end up converting everything later :)
12:10 * kaberett tips a hat, disappears, will be back later. Thanks all!
12:10 < Kareila> I haven't even got that far :) the uncommitted stuff I've got
is the profile displats for vgifts.
12:10 < Afuna> ta kaberett
12:10 < exor674> the frontend is functional just ugly, and that specific PR
doesn't actually add anything you can DO with OAuth
12:10 < Kareila> ^displays
12:10 < Afuna> Kareila: ahh. well similar, it's parto f the profile which is unconverted
12:11 < Afuna> so yeah make it match the existing
12:11 < Afuna> and it'll get converted when the profile does
12:11 < Kareila> it's that and a subpage. I think for the shop, maybe I do want
to use SCSS, but I'll burn that bridge when I come to it.
12:11 < Afuna> Kareila: *salutes*
12:12 < _Simon_> exor674: wow, that PR is even older than mine! (and mine is
going to have its birthday soon)
12:12 < Afuna> converting form css to scss is easy (since scss is just css + extra).
I don't know if that makes the decision easier or harder ;)
12:12 < _Simon_> I was going to ask a similar question if time, re v old PRs.
Which have probably bitrotted.(I know mine says it can't merge any more)
12:13 < Kareila> I'm hoping that either Fu or Fey will work with me on the shop
interface at some point, especially if it involves SCSS.
12:13 < foxfirefey> Yes, just ping me
12:13 < foxfirefey> We can set up a one-on-one at a convenient time to you!
12:13 < exor674> [ also, I know somebody offered to help me with the frontend
there, is the offer for that still on
12:14 < Kareila> thanks fey!
12:14 < Sophira> (BTW, I have something I'd like to talk about regarding the
Dreamhack server. Nothing too urgent, but I'd like to discuss it today
if there's time.)
12:14 < exor674> I'm sorta afraid with the new person who offered to do API
stuff and that they'll trample on all my stuff
12:14 < foxfirefey> Dre: I could do the same for you if you want to set up a
specific time to have my attention on front end
12:14 < exor674> foxfirefey: well, the offer in this case was someone'd do it
for me, lol
12:14 < Kareila> yes, let's talk about old PRs now, and then Sophira's issue with Dreamhacks.
12:15 < Afuna> exor674: was that me? I don't remember :(
12:15 < foxfirefey> I think it would be easier for me to do it if I had tyou to
walk me through setting it up
12:15 < exor674> it may have been
12:15 < foxfirefey> And whatnot
12:15 < exor674> <3
12:15 < foxfirefey> also it helps force things into my schedule ha
12:16 * V_PauAmma_V lines up after Sophira for the floor.
12:16 < exor674> I think that PR of mine is the one remaining thing from my
summer that hasn't gotten dealt with yet
12:17 < Kareila> Dre, yours and _Simon_'s are the one PRs I see open right now.
12:17 < exor674> ( I have a few followup branches that will actually enable
using OAuth in places, but I left those out for a good reason )
12:17 < Kareila> s/one/only/
12:17 < Sophira> Hmm. I should have a PR open too.
12:17 * Sophira checks.
12:17 < Kareila> is it on dw-free?
12:17 < Sophira> Yes.
12:17 < Sophira> https://github.com/dreamwidth/dw-free/pull/757
12:17 < Kareila> it may just not be labelled then.
12:18 < exor674> Sophira: we're talking about OLD PRs right now
12:18 < Sophira> Oh, sorry.
12:18 < Kareila> ah, yes, there are several that are unlabelled. my bad.
12:18 < Afuna> Kareila: ahhh. https://github.com/dreamwidth/dw-free/pulls/ is
all the PRs btw! the labelling is doen manually
12:18 < Afuna> so I guess the newer ones have been missed
12:19 < Kareila> something else for a hook to do automatically?
12:20 < Kareila> Okay, so Fey is offering to work with Dre. What needs to
happen for _Simon_'s PR?
12:20 < exor674> Kareila: no, that is not the resolution
12:21 < zorkian> AFAIK there is nothing blocking them except someone taking the
time to sit down and say "I'm comfortable this and will commit it".
12:21 < exor674> I don't want the pull request, which will not actually reveal
anything to users to be held up
12:21 < exor674> waiting on frontend, which someone else will be doing, as I understand
12:21 < Kareila> Okay, I see.
12:21 < _Simon_> zorkian: pretty sure mine has bitrotted enough that it won't merge now, TBH
12:21 < zorkian> Should be pretty straightforward to merge, I think
12:21 < exor674> I'm afraid of that on mine too, and my dev env is unusable at the moment
12:22 < Kareila> Okay, I can offer to take point on reviewing _Simon_'s PR
sometime in the next few weeks. Fu, Mark, will one of you review Dre's?
12:22 < _Simon_> fair enough - I have't looked in detail. I have pretty much
zero time available for dw-dev at present, so it's mostly "it's there,
hopefully somebody will do something with it" ;-)
12:22 < Kareila> _Simon_: I haven't updated my 'hack since last August, so I
can probably merge it just fine :)
12:23 < _Simon_> NB whoever is reviewing mine needs to look not just in terms
of DW but also in terms of anything that has changed with the Twitter API
in the year since I submitted it. I'm afraid I don't have the tim eto stay
current at present
12:23 < _Simon_> though I guess if it works.....
12:23 < Kareila> I can do that. I have some bots that post to Twitter so I'm
familiar with the needed changes.
12:23 < zorkian> Kareila: I'm looking at Dre's now, I had forgotten about it.. :|
12:23 < _Simon_> cool!
12:24 < alierak> Twitter API went https-only in January, if that helps.
12:24 < Kareila> I'm at OSB next week, but sometime in the couple of weeks
following, for sure. Ping me if I let it slip.
12:25 < Kareila> If we're ready to move on, I think Sophira was next and then V_PauAmma_V
12:25 < alierak> There was also a version bump sometime last May, so that would
be slightly more than a year ago.
12:25 < _Simon_> alierak: think I took care of that at the time. Hopefully it's
just a matter of making sure that Net::Twitter is up to date
12:26 < Sophira> Okay. My issue is about the Ubuntu version that the Dreamhack
server is using currently - 10.04.4 LTS, Lucid Lynx.
12:26 < _Simon_> yeah, https://github.com/swaldman3/dw-free/commit/e17e72f4af3dca456947fdeb4a29ad1a10443fa1
was the update for v1.1
12:27 < Kareila> alierak: what version of Ubuntu are we using in production?
12:27 < Sophira> It was released in February 2012, and the EOL for Ubuntu Server
is April 2015. Unfortunately, as I recently found out, we're not running
Ubuntu Server, which means our EOL was May 2013.
12:27 < alierak> 12.04.4 LTS
12:27 < exor674> aer there different repositories between Ubuntu Server and Ubuntu:?
12:28 < Sophira> I'm not sure, but the EOL dates are the same in Ubuntu and
Ubuntu Server since 12.04.
12:28 < Sophira> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
12:29 < Kareila> Looks like 12.04.4 LTS would be a reasonable target, it's good
for another 3 years.
12:29 < Kareila> And having it be the same as prod would probaly reduce headaches.
12:29 < Sophira> In either case, yeah, sounds like an upgrade is warranted.
The next question is - 12.04.4 LTS to match production, or a later version
(like 14.04 LTS)?
12:29 < Sophira> Okay.
12:30 < Kareila> Any other comments?
12:30 < Sophira> There'll probably be some downtime then when I do that. I'll
make sure everybody knows in advance, of course.
12:30 < Kareila> Sure thing.
12:30 < alierak> IIRC Mark just upgraded production recently.
12:30 < Afuna> no, that sounds fine to me
12:30 < Sophira> Does anyone have any suggestions for when that should be?
12:31 < zorkian> Actually doing 14.04 might be nice from a "we can see if it
works and prep production to upgrade" perspective, but hm.
12:31 < Kareila> I'm fine with anything that's not "right after a code push"
12:31 < foxfirefey> Agree with Mark--good test bed
12:31 < Afuna> Sophira: hmm. before or after osbridge but not during just in case?
12:31 < exor674> thanks zorkian <3
12:32 < Sophira> Afuna: Probably before; doing it after may accidentally remove
some of the momentum from it?
12:32 < Sophira> (when is it?)
12:32 < exor674> er, brb. hunting disturbing smell
12:32 < Kareila> It starts Tuesday.
12:32 < Sophira> Oh. Right.
12:32 < Afuna> exor674: oh no :( hope that turns out okay
12:32 < Sophira> Okay, maybe before isn't an option then :D
12:32 < zorkian> exor674: you're welcome, sorry it took so long. (landed the OAuth patch)
12:33 * Kareila pom-poms
12:34 < Afuna> haha I miss bugsy now
12:34 < exor674> hrmf, okay
12:34 < Sophira> So, 14.04 LTS at some point after OSBridge. Not sure how to do
it without losing some momentum, though.
12:34 < exor674> so apparently my cheese dip smells a lot like burning electronics
12:34 < exor674> ... not sure if good thing
12:35 < exor674> lol >_>
12:35 < Afuna> Sophira: how long is downtime bound to be?
12:35 < Sophira> exor674: Well, I'm certainly glad it *isn't* burning electronics!
12:36 < Kareila> I think if you put it off until, say, July 4th, that will
give us a week to follow up on OSB. Also that's a holiday in the US.
12:37 < Sophira> Afuna: I'm not entirely sure; I haven't really done a
dist-upgrade on Ubuntu before. I don't know if anything will break.
What I'll probably do is upgrade the devhack server first as a test run.
12:37 < zorkian> Upgrading distributions is usually pretty safe
12:37 < _Simon_> I've done mythbuntu upgrades a couple of times without major
breakage (well, with major breakage, but only to MythTV ;-))
12:38 < Sophira> Okay.
12:38 < exor674> I think the only issue is getting all the perl modules reinstalled
12:38 < _Simon_> IIRC one simply switches to the new repos, does apt-get dist-upgrade,
then hopes for the best :)
12:38 < Kareila> brb, nature calls.
12:38 < exor674> hopefully you have a list of the ones people have requested
for developemnt use that aren't DW requirements
12:39 < Sophira> Well, the backups I make of the Dreamwidth stuff includes a
list of all installed Perl distributions, so that at least can be done.
Though thanks for letting me know I'd have to do that - I hadn't realised!
12:39 < exor674> well, you mauy
12:39 < exor674> I think the perl version updating requires it
12:39 < exor674> but the subversion changing is fine?
12:40 < Sophira> Yeah. You have root access to the machine, if I remember
correctly - check out /dreamhack/backup/out/install-hints/ .
12:40 < Sophira> Ah.
12:40 < exor674> but I'm pretty sure that upgrade will upgrade the perl version
12:40 < _Simon_> Right. I am off to a midsummer party (a day late, but this
makes it saturday night). Have fun!
12:41 < Sophira> Talking of which, let me do another backup...
12:41 < alierak> If you have modules installed through apt, they should upgrade
with the OS
12:41 < Kareila> back
12:42 < Sophira> Backup made.
12:42 < exor674> alierak: there are a lot of modules that don't havef apt equivilants
12:42 < alierak> but those through cpan or local debs wouldn't
12:42 < Kareila> okay. V_PauAmma_V, you're up.
12:42 < exor674> packages
12:43 < Sophira> Right. That's why my backup install hints have a list of
installed dpkg packages *and* a list of installed Perl distributions.
12:44 * Sophira gives Pau the floor.
12:44 < Kareila> And after that, we should probably wrap this up, it's been over 90 minutes.
12:44 < alierak> Cool. I always end up looking at perldoc perllocal or whatever.
12:45 < Sophira> (I didn't even realise that existed. I might just add that into my backup hints)
12:45 * V_PauAmma_V would like feedback on http://dw-dev-training.dreamwidth.org/tag/questions
<--- Fine tuning (or rough tuning), frequency, wording, etc.
12:48 < Sophira> I like them, personally. It looks like they're helpful.
12:48 < foxfirefey> You do a good job
12:48 < zorkian> I like the threads. Is that community easily found by people?
It might be worth posting a reminder every once in a while to dw_dev
12:48 < Kareila> I've been thinking about that, and my personal feeling is that
those questions would get more attention if they were top level posts.
I understand that the purpose of the question posts is for people who
don't feel comfortable doing that to leave their question as a comment.
So, although I'm not sure they'e as effective as they could be, I don't
know what I would change.
12:50 < Sophira> Oh, I hadn't realised those were in _training. Hmm. I think
they might actually be better in dw_dev, because the idea of _training
is *already* to allow people to feel comfortable about asking stuff.
This way, people can still ask them in the thread on dw_dev, and they
might be seen by more people.
12:51 < Sophira> But I'm certainly not complaining and I wouldn't have a problem
if you kept posting them to _training.
12:51 < Kareila> That's a good point. Maybe move them to dw-dev, and update
the wording to remind people they can use dw-dev-training if they're
new and/or unsure.
12:51 < exor674> I think the point is those also allow off-topic questions
12:51 < Sophira> True.
12:51 < exor674> I don't think we want to encourage people to ask non-DW
questions as top-level posts
12:52 < Sophira> What sort of non-DW questions are we thinking of?
12:52 < V_PauAmma_V> Hmm. Would dw-dev - or toplevel entries - work for non-DW... bunnehed.
12:52 < exor674> IDK, but pau's post explicitly encourages
12:52 < exor674> " You may ask any dev-related question you have in a comment.
(It doesn't even need to be about Dreamwidth, although if it involves a
language/library/framework/database Dreamwidth doesn't use, you will
probably get answers pointing that out and suggesting a better place to ask.)"
12:54 < Sophira> Yeah, I noticed. I'm just wondering what sort of questions Pau
is thinking he might get. Have any been asked so far?
12:55 < Kareila> I say go ahead and continue to encourage more general
questions as comments on the question threads. I don't see that
it's been a problem so far. Agreed that top-level posts in dw-dev should
be DW-related.
12:56 < V_PauAmma_V> (to Sophira) I don't think so, but I'd like to keep that
option. Like there's been a few discussions here that weren't DW-related, IIRC.
12:57 < Sophira> Okay.
12:58 < alierak> Once upon a time there was a question about SQL book/tutorial recs.
12:59 < Sophira> Fair enough!
12:59 < Kareila> That's a DW-related skill even if they're working on something
else when they ask it. :)
13:00 < alierak> Yeah, that's pretty much what the person said at the time.
13:00 < alierak> I don't think we're really getting non-DW stuff, then.
13:00 < V_PauAmma_V> (to Sophira) But the kind of question I was thinking about
is "I have $personal_project that uses stuff that DW also relies on, and
I'm not comfortable asking elsewhere/I know I'll get good answers here/I'm
not sure where to ask"
13:03 < Sophira> I do think it's probably worth moving it over to dw_dev in
general, personally. Even more experienced devs might need a hand with
things, and it would allow people who feel that they might not otherwise
post on dw_dev (over dw_dev_training) to post comments there.
13:04 < Sophira> Though it'll definitely be worth making sure _training knows
about it too.
13:04 < Kareila> I don't see a problem with those questions being asked on the
open question threads, even if they move to dw-dev.
13:05 < Sophira> Neither do I.
13:05 < Kareila> Maybe post to dw-dwv-training and see what people reading there think?
13:05 < Sophira> That makes sense.
13:06 < Sophira> But yeah, I absolutely think these questions should still be
able to be asked.
13:07 < V_PauAmma_V> OK. Any feedback on frequency? Is once a month OK/too long/too short?
13:07 < foxfirefey> I think once a month is OK
13:07 < zorkian> It seems reasonable to me :)
13:07 < foxfirefey> People can always make top level posts if they need something sooner!
13:07 < Kareila> I wouldn't say more often, considering you only get about 40-50%
return rate under the current schedule.
13:08 < Kareila> Although that might change if you move to dw-dev, so maybe wait and see
13:09 < Kareila> I don't have any other topics of discussion. Any other
last-minute questions or comments?
13:10 < Afuna> I'm really glad you came up with this idea :)
13:10 < zorkian> ^
13:10 < Sophira> Me too.
13:10 < Kareila> I'm really glad you all came so I didn't end up talking to myself ;)
13:10 < foxfirefey> Hooray
13:12 -!- ChanServ changed the topic of #dreamwidth-dev to: Dreamwidth Studios
(dreamwidth.org) -- development discussion. Grab a bug and start hacking!
|| Next dev chat 2014-06-27 @ 22:00 EDT
13:12 < zorkian> Thank you so much for setting this up Kar.
13:13 < Kareila> you're welcome :)
13:13 < Kareila> I'll clean up the log and get it posted after I eat some lunch.
13:13 < foxfirefey> Adjourned! Woo
13:13 < foxfirefey> Thank you!
13:14 < Afuna> whooo
13:14 < Afuna> good night all!
13:14 < zorkian> Vaguely, this sort of collaborative/together time is pretty nice.
13:14 < zorkian> Night Fu!
13:14 < Kareila> sleep well fu
13:14 < foxfirefey> community++
13:14 < Afuna> yeah I really like it
13:14 < Sophira> :D
13:14 < zorkian> I wonder if that'd work for sitting down and doing DW stuff.
Like, "I'm going to be doing dev work for 2 hours here, feel free to join
me" and not to chat, but just to be proximal?
13:15 < Kareila> kind of like an online hackathon?
13:15 < zorkian> Yeah, basically
13:15 < exor674> aw shucks, I missed my thing I was gonna offer ;_;
13:15 < V_PauAmma_V> Maybe time should be/include GMT? (2014-06-28 @ 2am GMT)
13:15 < foxfirefey> I actually think it might be nice to alternate dev meeting
+ dev work weeks
13:15 < foxfirefey> or something
13:15 < foxfirefey> Or like dev meeting once a month and dev work things the
rest of the weeks
13:16 < foxfirefey> People can ask questions during dev work but
13:16 < Kareila> let's talk about that at the next meeting :)
13:16 < foxfirefey> okay!
13:16 < exor674> in case anyoen catches this: Me and Fu have done some work
and I have access to pretty much every bug from bugzilla
13:16 < exor674> it's not in a nice form, and I cannot share all the data at this point
13:16 < exor674> but I am completely willing to dig up specific bug #s if anyone needs
13:17 < Kareila> I will definitely need some of that at some point. Thanks Dre.
13:17 < Sophira> I was just thinking about that and how it'd be nice to have a
read-only version of the DB viewable somewhere. I know that can't happen
right now, but I hope it can at some point.
13:19 < Kareila> I think the issue is that some of the stuff in the old DB was
flagged as non-public, and still needs to be non-public.
13:20 < Sophira> Right.
13:22 < Kareila> okay, I'll summarize which topics we discussed and what we plan
to discuss next time when I update my post to add the log.
13:22 < Kareila> thanks again everyone :)
no subject