kareila: Rosie the Riveter "We Can Do It!" with a DW swirl (dw)
kareila ([personal profile] kareila) wrote in [site community profile] dw_dev2014-07-19 10:26 am
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dev chat meeting: 2014-07-19 12:00 EDT

In a few minutes we'll be starting a meeting in #dreamwidth-dev! Please drop by if you're around and chat with us!

If you aren't able to make today's meeting, the next meeting will be on Saturday, August 9, at 12 pm EDT.

Update: Here's a list of topics we discussed today:

  • moving chat meetings to every other week, and having social hack time on alternate weeks
  • new mobile styles: current status, and what needs to be done (helpers welcome)
  • Github Issues: still working on getting tags and teams into shape
  • project tracking for non-development projects (e.g. documentation) and non-public projects (security issues)
  • general tracking of larger developer projects (using milestones for this)

And a partial list of topics to follow up with next time:

  • revisit scheduling if needed; was social hack time productive?
  • specific "what are we working on" discussion/issues (chat? blogs? other?)
  • revisit new mobile styles / Github Issues to discuss progress

In attendance were myself, deborahGU, Afuna, alierak, zorkian, and Sophira.

11:10 -!- ChanServ changed the topic of #dreamwidth-dev to: Dreamwidth Studios
      (dreamwidth.org) --  development discussion. Grab a bug and start hacking!
      || Dev chat currently in progress, transcript will be posted.
11:11 < deborahGU> so just a heads up: allen and I were basically out of touch
      for months because we were working on a server migration, but we are
      finishing up the server migration pretty much exactly right now, so we
      are now back. Well, as of an hour or two from now.
11:11 < Kareila> all right, first off thank you all for coming today.
11:12 < Kareila> congratulations and welcome back :)
11:12 < deborahGU> :)
11:14 < Kareila> so last week I managed to actually show up for a chat I
      scheduled for the opposite time slot, but there were only a couple of
      others who showed up.
11:15 < Kareila> I asked for suggestions for a different alternate time and
      didn't get any, so I guess for now I'm going to stick with Saturdays,
      but only every other week.
11:17 < Kareila> Mark had said he'd be interested in having some unstructured
      hack time on the alternate weeks, for people who like to chat while
      they work.
11:20 < Kareila> I'm having severe type lag right now :/
11:23 < Kareila> anyway, that's my plan for now, but I'm open to other suggestions.
11:25 < deborahGU> I like that plan, though saturday at noon ET is a time I can
      rarely make
11:26 < Afuna> is thatais that the schedule now?
11:26 < Afuna> uhh I mean saturday at noon ET is that the schedule this week or
      the opposite week?
11:27 < Kareila> the purpose I envisioned for these chats was to talk about
      what's currently going on with DW and give people a chance to ask questions 
11:28 < Kareila> and I think there was a lot of pent up demand for that, but I
      don't know that there's enough to keep people coming back every week
11:29 < Kareila> yeah, fu, that's today's schedule :)
11:30 < Afuna> yeah that seems fairly accurate
11:30 < Afuna> Kareila: thanks :) was'nt entirely sure
11:33 < Kareila> all right, I'll go with that for now then.
11:33 < alierak> So designated dev chat time at noon ET, every other week, and
      then designated hack time at 10pm ET on the opposite weeks?
11:34 < Kareila> I don't know that the hack time is going to run on a schedule.
      I'm going to let Mark be in charge of that.
11:35 < Kareila> Since it was his idea and all..
11:37 < Kareila> but I do recall him saying that 10pm ET wasn't a good time for
      him to be around.
11:38 < Afuna> for this time slot I'm likely unable to mak it regularly, but I
      don't think that should be a showstopper (since I'm around any other time
11:39 < Afuna> and I'd mostly try to be around for a couple hours anyway!
11:39 < alierak> Ok, then perhaps timeslots for dev chat and timeslots for hack
      time are unrelated except that they're on alternating weeks.
11:41 < Afuna> sounds fair, and I guess that hack time is to be determined as above
11:42 < Kareila> yeah, I don't want to push it later because I don't want to keep
      fu up late, and I don't want to make it earlier because the west coast would
      still be in bed.
11:43 < Afuna> yeah
11:43 < Kareila> and anything in what are evening hours here loses Europe.
11:43 < Afuna> I'm totllay fine extending my bedtime for a couple hours since
      I have the most flexible schedule anyway!
11:44 < Afuna> or even just being there the first couple hours and then
      disappearing once everyone's gotetn started and everything
11:44 < Afuna> like I said, I dn't think I need to be a blocker here :)
11:45 < Kareila> I appreciate that :)
11:45 < Kareila> but anyway, that's my reasoning for keeping it where it is
      right now, but like I said, I'm open to suggestions for moving it around,
      as long as I have some lead time.
11:48 < Kareila> and I'll let someone else worry about when to have hack time :)
11:50 < Kareila> okay, next item on my list is the new mobile styles
11:51 < Kareila> I know they caught most of our users off guard, but most of the
      big issues have been resolved now, and we're just working on tweaks now
      for the most part, right?
11:52 < Afuna> not many of the big issues have been fixed et
11:52 < Afuna> this past week's been really weird for me, got hit by a storm and
      lost power for a substantial chunk of it
11:52 < Kareila> yeah, that was terrible timing :/
11:53 < Afuna> yeah
11:53 < Afuna> there's a bunch of bugs in
11:53 < Afuna> I think that #838 ad #839 should help with the most major issues
11:54 < Afuna> and thankfully liv's helped brainstorm and taken those two up :)
11:54 < Kareila> that was my next question, whether any of those issues things
      others could help with?
11:55 < deborahGU> well it relates to a question I had
11:55 < Kareila> you've done an amazing amount of work on this but I don't want
      you to do it all alone if you don't have to
11:55 < Afuna> yes! notihng's waiting on me
11:55 < Afuna> and I'd seriously appreciate help
11:56 < deborahGU> which is that I have effectively been away for so long that
      I have not done any substantial work since before the integration of
      foundation, the death of bugzilla, etc., and I don't know where to pick
      things back up and start again.
11:56 < deborahGU> I lost my ticket list and I don't even know how many of
      those are still relevant. :P
11:56 < alierak> I am in, if not the same boat, one similarly shaped.
11:58 < Kareila> well, the good news is that Dre was able to reconstruct most
      of the missing Bugzilla data from her email archive. But she hasn't
      filtered out security issues, so it's not posted anywhere public.
11:58 < alierak> (I might be interested in a list of the security issues in
      particular, since that's what I'd usually look at first)
11:58 < deborahGU> but they aren't all recreated in ghi?
11:59 < deborahGU> but I could ask her for the a11y ones?
11:59 < Afuna> deborahGU: they're not. we went tabula rasa in gh and have been
      inputting the uh
11:59 < Afuna> inputting older bugs as they come up (soe of the older stuff in
      the bug system is probably no longer relevant)
11:59 < deborahGU> so I could ask for the a11y and decide offline how many are
      still real and need fixing, then?
11:59 < Afuna> but yes totally ping her and ask for a list of accessibility bugs!
11:59 < Afuna> and yes
12:00 < deborahGU> because for a11y we don't want to make people re-report
12:00 < Afuna> I'd suggest giving her any keywords
12:00 < Afuna> agreed
12:00 < deborahGU> okay,  i will do!
12:00 < deborahGU> that being said, if people want to drag me in to existing
      things, like Afuna something you are working on, it's not like I am in
      something else right now
12:01 < Afuna> ponder ponder ponder
12:01 < Afuna> does anything on
      strike your fancy? I forget if you enjoy frontend work or not
12:02 < Kareila> the other problem with the security issues is that we don't
      have a mechanism yet for reporting them in GHI
12:02 < Kareila> I can get you a list of the old ones, though.
12:03 < deborahGU> Afuna: I like both. Let me take a look and get back to you
      about them. It looks like maybe #833 might be a good introduction to the
      new foundation + mobile layout stuff?
12:03 < Afuna> kareila: security@dreamwidth.org works for reporting (though not
      tracking, not sure how we're doing a track thing)
12:03 < Kareila> I have an idea about that, fu
12:03 < Afuna> deborahGU: the control strip, etc, and anything mobile related
      doesn't use foundation
12:04 < Afuna> but probably will behelpful for mobile layout!
12:04 < Afuna> Kareila: hmmm?
12:04 < deborahGU> okay that's a start fu!
12:04 < Afuna> deborahGU: awesmoe \o-/
12:05 < Kareila> first, though, if we decide to take on one of your mobility
      bugs, have we worked out the process for claiming?
12:06 < Afuna> kareila: right now, technically, you can just make a comment
      saying "claimed/claiming"
12:06 < Afuna> what we haven't worked out yet is the process for getting people
      onto the appropriate dw team
12:07 < Afuna> so there was some talk of making it automatic but there were
      concerns about it coming off impersonal (but counterbalanced by -- not
      having to do that extra step oof contacting someone "inside" before you
      even have had a chance to look)
12:07 < Kareila> can I ask a really dumb question? :)
12:08 < Kareila> what are the teams, what is their purpose exactly?
12:09 < Afuna> the teams are a gh thing and they basically give tiers of access
12:09 < deborahGU> so if I go in say #833 and say claimed am I in the right team?
12:09 < Afuna> read-only access lets you read the repo (which isn't so important
      to us because we're not a private repo), but also links you with dw so you
      show up in the list of possible assignees
12:09 < Afuna> read-write access gives you committer access to the repo
12:10 < alierak> I'm guessing pretty much everyone will need to be part of
12:10 < Afuna> and there's a read-write-admin access which lets you do more
      stuff -- but I'm less familiar with  that
12:10 < Afuna> alierak: yeah, that's the read-only team
12:10 < Kareila> okay, then why wouldn't we just put people in the read-only
      team when we have their CLA on file
12:10 < Afuna> deborahGU: hmm. I don't remember if you're on any teams. you can
      find out by looking at https://github.com/dreamwidth/ -- if the sidebar
      there shows a list o teams of not
12:10 < Kareila> and the others as needed?
12:11 < Afuna> I'm okay with that, but I think that then means it's another
      thing for denise to do heh
12:11 < Kareila> eh, it's already something she's doing and has said she's fine
      with doing. it's just one extra step in that process.
12:12 < Afuna> then that's fine!
12:12 < Afuna> I guess the only other thing is to post about the uhhh thing.
      thing for people ho have been around a while
12:12 < Afuna> entry
12:12 < Afuna> (I'm sorry words are hard!)
12:13 < Afuna> deborahGU: invited you
12:13 < Kareila> so we need to make sure everyone who has contributed in the
      past is on the read-only team going forward, is that it?
12:13 < Afuna> kareila: yeah.
12:14 < Afuna> possible other point: what about people who've contributed in the
      past but have faded away? I wouldn't mind them on the team, but would they
      mind being added to something they've wandered away from?
12:14 < Kareila> hmm.
12:15 < deborahGU> maybe contact them individually?
12:15 < alierak> Kareila's got a convenient list of them I think
12:15 < Kareila> well, I have a list of DW usernames
12:15 < Kareila> not a list of GH usernames
12:15 < Kareila> we'd want to send a different message depending on if they have
      a GH account
12:15 < Afuna> kareila: I can email you a list of github usernames of people who
      have the uhh thingy
12:16 < Afuna> a dreamhack
12:16 < Afuna> github matched up to their dw usernames
12:16 < Kareila> hmm, okay, I see three different lists emerging here
12:16 < Kareila> 1. list of members of the Dreamwidth contributors on Github
12:16 < Kareila> 2. list of Dreamhack users
12:17 < Kareila> 3. list of developers who have a CLA on file
12:17 < Kareila> we want to make 1 and 3 as similar as possible
12:17 < Afuna> yeah
12:18 < Kareila> 2 is less congruent, since we encourage people to sign up for
      hacks and poke around before they contribute code
12:18 < Afuna> yeah. s'true
12:18 < Afuna> I guess it'd mostly be useful for getting the github username
      given a dw username
12:19 < Kareila> yeah, I can use it as a data source for verifying the contents
      of the third list before trying to sync it up with the first list?
12:19 < Afuna> (noting: two things I'd like to bring up: whether people are
      monitoring discussions on github issues)
12:19 < Afuna> umm and I forgot the other one
12:19 < Afuna> Kareila: sounds good!
12:20 < Afuna> sent you :)
12:21 < Kareila> okay, I'll look through that after the meeting and post my
      findings to... dw-lounge I guess?
12:21 < Afuna> ok!
12:21 < Afuna> that makes sense
12:22 < Afuna> all the people who'd be able to invite to a team are in -lounge
12:22 < Kareila> if we can get it synced up, then going forward it's back to
      basing it off when we receive the CLA
12:22 < Afuna> yeah that sounds good and reasoable1
12:23 < Afuna> and if we do miss osmeone for a couple days -- I think that
      saying "claimed" even if it does'nt set the assigned status is reasonable
      to claim it to work on anyway
12:23 < Afuna> but yeah I'd lik ethe assigned status, because that makes
      searching/filtering easier
12:27 < Kareila> which ones did you say Liv was working on? I think they're
      still showing up unassigned.
12:27 < Afuna> 838 and 839
12:31 < Kareila> did we decide that untriaged is the same thing as unassigned?
      I can't remember :)
12:32 < Kareila> I was looking for the equivalent of "assigned" or "in progress"
      just now and not finding it.
12:32 < Afuna> kareila: hmm. I don't remember exactly but I don't think we did
12:35 < Kareila> okay, okay, I see where assigning is supposed to happen
12:35 < Kareila> I don't see liv in the list though
12:36 < Afuna> hmmm yeah I don't think she's been added yet
12:36 < Kareila> for now I will just assign them to you so that they don't get
12:38 < Kareila> and we're supposed to clear untriaged when that happens, right?
12:38 < Kareila> I thought that would happen automatically but it didn't
12:39 < Kareila> sorry I'm being all flaily
12:39 < deborahGU> you are not a very flaily person Jen
12:39 < Sophira> (Oh, I forgot about this dev chat. I see mentions of
      Dreamhacks - is there anything I need to know?)
12:39 < Kareila> hey Sophira. no, it was just mentioned in passing.
12:40 < Sophira> Okay. I'll go read the chat history then :)
12:40 < Afuna> Kareila: hmmm. untriaged is cleared when you tag by commenting
12:40 < Kareila> I have been quietly flailing ever since we lost Bugzilla, I've
      just been trying not to show it much, heh.
12:41 < Afuna> but we should see if we can clear the tag when the tag is applied
      through regular means
12:41 < Kareila> fu: thought so too, but deborah's bug still shows up untriaged
12:41 < Afuna> oh! becaus eit doesn't have tags yet
12:41 < Afuna> (that is, untriaged isn't unclaimed; it's untagged)
12:42 < Kareila> oh, I see. so we don't have anything equivalent to "unassigned"
12:42 < Afuna> kareila: onl y the acutal not being assigned!
12:43 < Afuna> ( https://github.com/dreamwidth/dw-free/issues/assigned/none )
12:43 < Afuna> though I vaguely recall someone asking for an unassigned tag but
      I... it probably slipped my mind
12:43 < Afuna> do we have a bug for that?
12:44 < Kareila> I don't knooooow
12:44 < Kareila> having a URL is good, but it needs to be discoverable somehow
12:44 < Afuna> heheh me neither
12:44 < Afuna> no I don't tihnk we do :(
12:44 < Afuna> kareila: yeah, which is why I hink someone mentioned an
      unassigned bug
12:44 < Afuna> I can't remember where though
12:45 < Kareila> okay, how about I go through the discussion post about GH tags
      we had a couple of weeks ago
12:45 < Kareila> and make a bug to add the tags we decided on from that?
12:45 < Kareila> and if it's a dupe OH WELL
12:48 < Kareila> my to-do list for after this meeting is piling up, heh
12:49 < Afuna> oooh maybe that's it
12:49 < Afuna> Idon't think we do
12:49 < Afuna> and ein either case, let's do it :)
12:49 < Sophira> (Okay, I've read through the history. I should note that for
      new installs/reinstalls I've been requiring GitHub usernames for some
      time now, and it's readable by any Dreamhack user if they need to query
      the database (but there are no scripts to do this automatically, so you'd
      need to connect manually to the database)
12:49 < Kareila> okay, will do :)
12:50 < Sophira> (Or I could just supply the results from a query myself, if
12:50 < Kareila> fu already emailed me a list, so I'll work from that. but
      thanks :)
12:50 < Sophira> Okay!
12:51 < Kareila> all right, anything else before we move on from this?
12:51 < Kareila> I want to get back to something I mentioned earlier in the
      context of security issues
12:53 < Kareila> basically, we want all the tracking for our (open) development
      work to go through Github now and for the foreseeable future
12:53 < Kareila> but there are other projects that need tracking, such as
      documentation issues, and I guess we can add security issues to that list
12:54 < Kareila> and alierak and I have gotten permission from the bosses to
      look at finding another platform for tracking those other issues.
12:55 < Kareila> we haven't started working on it yet, but I wanted to give
      people a heads up that this is something we're planning.
12:55 < Kareila> and once we have something up and running, we'll probably want
      to do some limited testing with it before making it available to everyone.
12:58 < Afuna> ok!
12:58 < Kareila> as far as tracking the status of the larger developer projects,
      I think we've pretty much settled on milestones at this point, but we need
      to make sure that's something people know to look for. I don't think
      they've really been publicized outside of these chats yet.
13:00 < Kareila> that brings me to the last item on my list, which is tracking
      the work of individual developers. but since we just hit the two hour
      mark, I'm thinking maybe save that for next time
13:02 < Afuna> sounds good and thank you!
13:02 < Kareila> these are just things I'm thinking about! I want to know what
      other people are thinking about too!
13:03 < Afuna> i'm tihnking a bit about developer discussion and making sure
      it's happening somewhere that's trackable and not invisible
13:03 < Afuna> but on second thought that's ly tangentially related :)
13:04 < Sophira> Talking of which, I'm thinking of putting GitHub usernames on
      the Dreamhacks list on the Web. It makes sense to me; what do people think?
13:04 < Sophira> (And should I have an option to hide it?)
13:06 < Sophira> (But we can talk about this later.)
13:06 < Sophira> (Sorry for derailing.)
13:07 < Kareila> yeah, I don't have an opinion about that. I didn't even know
      we had a public list of those.
13:08 < Kareila> I agree, fu, which is why I wanted to start having these chats
      and posting the logs
13:10 < Kareila> and yes, we should make sure people know they have the option
      to subscribe to getting emails of all the discussion on Github
13:12 < zorkian> [morning]
13:12 < Afuna> kareila: I think it's an awesome idea btw. thank you for coming
      up with it ad moderating the chats
13:12 < Kareila> I'd like for us to be in a position to be able to say that if
      someone is following the issue tracker and the dw-dev community, they
      should be able to assemble a reasonably accurate picture of what is going
      on with development.
13:13 < Kareila> and if that's not the case, figure out what we're missing and
      try to correct it.
13:14 < zorkian> agreed re: having two places, and it being those. IRC is good
      for real-time but discussions/decisions should be captured and posted
13:14 < Afuna> morning mark :)
13:15 < zorkian> (I don't necedssarily think the entire log has to be posted
      every time, but things should at least be summarized so other folks can
      read/know/give feedback)
13:15 < zorkian> good morning :) sorry I'm way late.
13:15 < Kareila> better late than never :)
13:15 < Afuna> in with a bang :)
13:16 < Kareila> I think that's all I've got for today, but now that Mark's
      here, let's revisit the scheduling question quickly
13:17 < Kareila> to quickly recap: we decided to do chat meetings at this time
      on alternate weeks for now, and have the opposite week be hack time, but
      I didn't have a particular time in mind.
13:18 < Kareila> Mark, since it was your idea, would you like to pick a time
      sometime in the next week or so to do that?
13:19 < zorkian> sure, do you mean to decide (over the next week) on a time?
      or pick a time now for the next week?
13:19 < Kareila> you don't have to decide now, but a couple of day's notice
      would be helpful I think.
13:20 < zorkian> yeah, totally. well, best for me is probably this time or
      earlier on a saturday, since my evenings are unpredictable
13:20 < zorkian> or sunday mornings
13:21 < Kareila> I can usually do either of those :)
13:22 < zorkian> alright; let me work out an exact time and i'll post to dw_dev
      or do you want to?
13:23 < Kareila> please do
13:23 < zorkian> rgr
13:23 < Kareila> I don't want to give the impression of always being the
      decider about these things :)
13:24 < zorkian> hehe, fair enough.
13:24 < Kareila> okay, I've been typing for 2 and a half hours and am ready for
      a break. anything else before we adjourn?
13:25 < Sophira> Unless we want to talk about the public GitHub username thing,
      I've got nothing.
13:25 < deborahGU> i am good
13:25 < Afuna> I got nothing
13:27 < Kareila> okay, consider the gavel banged.
13:27 < zorkian> boom!
13:27 -!- ChanServ changed the topic of #dreamwidth-dev to: Dreamwidth Studios
      (dreamwidth.org) --  development discussion. Grab a bug and start hacking!
      || Next dev chat 2014-08-02 @ 12:00 EDT
13:27 < zorkian> thank you kareila :)
13:27 < Kareila> thanks for coming everyone :)
13:28 < Afuna> whoo
13:28 < Afuna> have a good day all!
azurelunatic: A glittery black pin badge with a blue holographic star in the middle. (Default)

[personal profile] azurelunatic 2014-07-19 07:57 pm (UTC)(link)
Yay, thank you again for posting this! I always like to read through to get an idea of what's going on so I can be up to date when trying to orient people, and my router fell off the internet early this morning.

[personal profile] swaldman 2014-07-21 05:04 am (UTC)(link)
What's the reason for not using GHI for doc and other non-coding bugs? Maybe have a different repo, but I seems sensible to me to adopt the same system, even if the stuff that it refers to invite hosted on github.

[personal profile] swaldman 2014-07-21 06:31 am (UTC)(link)
Really? I think the interface looks & behaves much like any Web forum, if you're only using Issues and not the other stuff.

Ah we, though, if that's the advice from those concerned....